Speak Chinese - Female responses ONLY: Foreign girls and dating -

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Female responses ONLY: Foreign girls and dating
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mandarinstudent -

I'm just a bit curious about this subject. I know that the foreign guys here in China have no
problem in the "companionship" category, but what do the females do? Most white girls I know tell
me they just aren't into asian dudes. That only leaves the other foreigners in China as an option.
If you are not in Beijing or Shanghai, there aren't so many foreigners. Alot are ugly, fat, or old
and the ones that are decently attractive are either swimming in a sea of Chinese poontang or
married/engaged already. Where does that leave the female foreigner? Do they come to China knowing
that they will most likely be celibate for the time they are here? They are OK with that? Do they
convert and start dating asian guys? I haven't gotten to know my female co-workers well enough to
ask, so I'm hoping for a few female responses here. What do you do???



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roddy -

Tell you what. Rather than all the guys speculating and generally lowering the tone (xichg, please
. . .), why don't we actually wait for those female responses . . .










mandarinstudent -



Quote:

Tell you what. Rather than all the guys speculating and generally lowering the tone (xichg, please
. . .), why don't we actually wait for those female responses . . .

Thank you roddy. I didn't write this to knock the "man sluts" in China or start a debate
concerning "asian men vs. western men". I just want to know what the female foreigners do in China
for relationships and such. I'm not knocking asian guys, but most white girls I knew back in the
US didnt go for asians. Do the foreign girls just come to China with the mindset of, "Ok, Im going
to China and there will be no relationships or even a hope for sex during the time I am there," do
they convert and date Chinese guys, or do they just do what xichg says?










Kiwijes -

Ha ha ha. Loving this post.
Ok, I'm female, 25 and going to China to live in an area with hardly any other westerners. I dont
expect to be getting any action whilst there eh! But to whoever posted the "bring a vibrator"
thing - I'd be so scared of getting snapped in customs! I think i'm just going to have to go cold
turkey. I'll be fine.

Now I have just been visiting friends in Japan who teach English there. The Japanese girls all
flock to the western guys (including the hidiously ugly guys who wouldnt have a chance of getting
a date back home) so I expect China to be similar in that respect. Why would a western guy go for
a western girl when he can "sample" the chinese "culture" a lot more!? He's in China to learn
right? Ha ha.

The moral of the story is, if you are desperate for a root, and you don't like Asian guys - go and
teach English in another country! Your chances wont be high of finding a westerner, especially in
the smaller cities! If you're really hanging out, take your holidays in highly populated tourist
areas!










mandarinstudent -

Ok, we finally have an answer from a female...accept celibacy. Any other foreign females care to
weigh in?










iluvdofu -

LOL... i'm sooo glad i found this forum.

ok, i'm a western female in this predicament. i arrived into bj (pun intended ;-)) about a week
ago and have been thinking the exact same thing - what the hell am i gonna do over the next few
months? i've hardly been given more than a passing glance, and i know it's only cuz i'm recognized
as a foreigner. dayum! what's a girl supposed to do?

kiwijes, i considered the same. however, i figured i would suffer much greater risk and harm in
leaving my "personal massager" at home. as it is, i'm having a hard enough time quitting smoking!
i got needs!!

daxia, let's not forget to note that for those that are less than plentiful, there are certainly
other ways to please women - which many women prefer. i totally agree with you... it's not such a
sexy feeling to know i might accidentally smother my guy.

thank you mandarinstudent for posting this topic. and for all those western boys who can't get any
back home - live it up playahs! ;-)










roddy -



Quote:

so I'm hoping for a few female responses here.



Quote:

why don't we actually wait for those female responses . . .

I'm serious, let's actually give this a shot. If you're not female, or you're not posting an
intelligent response to something from a female, don't post. Otherwise we're going to wind up with
pages of daxia type speculation. I also just removed a 'how to make a vibrator' post. . .


Quote:

BTW, xichg's comment shows some of the utter frustration you will get into in China. My full
understanding is with her.

Xichg is Chinese, and if I remember correctly male. That was sarcasm, not frustration.










mandarinstudent -



Quote:

Haha, This subject is soooooo taboo and I am sure I will be flamed for this but let's be honest.

It's all a matter of SiZe, and I dont just mean the place youre all thinking about. Asian guys are
in general allot shorter and skinnier then western men, and western women are in general allot
taller and (sorry for this) fatter then Chinese women (and men).

So, would a Chinese man be willing to be together with a women thats as tall or even taller than
him self and weighs 30% more than he does ?

Would a western women be willing to be together with a guy that constantly makes her feel big and
clumpsy, when we all know that it is the opposite of what all girls likes to feel ?

Women wants to feel small, and men wants to feel big. Women likes to feel that they are safe and
men like to feel that they can protect their women. Do the maths and you will have your answer.

Now, lets look at it the other way around. Would a Chinese girl be willing to be together with a
tall and rich guy (we all know that westerners are considered to be rich in China), that perhaps
will take her to a foreign country and totally change her life. YES !

Would a western guy be willing to be together with a small and pretty girl(we all know that
chinese girls are considered to be pretty in the west), of whoose he can change the life of and
give her things that she never had. HELL YES !

(There are ofcourse exeptions to this, and I have seen one or two western girls with chinese men
during my 3 years in China, but compared to the hundreds of western men who has a Chinese girl by
his side, its nothing.)

I am sorry if I offended anyone with this, but we all know its true. The thing is that allot of
people does not dare to say it out loud.

Again, the above post is in the wrong thread. We are not discussing WHY white women do/don't sleep
with asian men or WHY white men do/don't sleep with Chinese girls. I was simply trying to get a
few first hand experiences from FEMALE FOREIGNERS in China concerning their dating life (or lack
of), how they deal with it, or what options they feel they have. That is it. That is all. We don't
need an analysis of why you think things are the way they are. Please start another thread if you
feel the need to analyze. Thank you.










roddy -

Removed all the non-relevant responses, will perhaps split them off into another discussion later.
To reiterate, the OP is looking for

Quote:

first hand experiences from FEMALE FOREIGNERS

If that's not you, . Those of you who want to tell us what your roommate / friend / auntie told
you - invite them to join the forum, they can tell us themselves.

I'm not normally this anal about keeping things on topic but it's an interesting question and also
one that goes off-topic very quickly - onto dildos and racism so far, so I'm being a bit more
proactive than usual. Contact form or pm if you have any comments.










芳芳 -

This is surely an interesting question and thanks to the access restriction, maybe it won't
finally fall into racist and sexist prejudices as it did with the "interracial mariage" topic.
Besides i have some time to answer so why not give a contribution.

When I was in China, before leaving, i never had in mind this would be a "period of celibate" or
never thought "great, i'm going to date exotic"... I just didn't thought a second about a dating
question (just my dad laugh and said "bring us back a nice chinese guy" because as he saw i was so
interested in china he thought it must be an interest in every aspect of china -including chinese
guys. ).

On the other hand I am not a person with a "precise kind of guy", i don't have any prejudice in
dating (or talking to) asian or european or african or martian guy, but (unlike many girls are
pretended to be by many posters here, and I suspect a little resentment against female gender from
them) the "big and strong -full of muscles bêêê- and protective and
full-of-money-who-show-off-with-it" guy is really not my kind. And I find asian specific body
features rather cute (like tiny nose, asian eyes and round face features, I think that both for
male and female asian - not that I'm into girls nevertheless)...

So, when in China, I just have the same attitude toward guy as in France or elsewhere(ok,
communication is very different because of the language an cultural stuff), they don't have more
or less chance than foreigners whith me (and conversely as it seems).

Voilà, hopes it gives some clues and discourage certain people from hazardous generalisations.
This was just my case.
To finish i'll say i liked the post of Heifeng showing things just how they are with no great
"scientifical theory of whould should date what and why".












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Learning Mandarin - Non-Chinese Cantonese speakers - Page 2 -

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Non-Chinese Cantonese speakers
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roddy -



Quote:

How more racist one can get?

Hang people from trees? Force their kids to go to different schools? Not allow them to vote?
There's a few thoughts.



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Quest -

I think it's just so much rarer to see a Cantonese speaking caucasian, and honestly I have never
seen/met/heard a caucasian who speaks Cantonese as well as Sharon Balcombe. I've seen/heard many
non-Chinese but fluent Cantonese speakers, but never one that could speak it flawlessly like Mrs.
Lau. even if they were born in HK. People complain that HK people dont talk to them in Cantonese,
but if they spoke Cantonese like Sharon Balcombe, I think it would be hard not to speak to them in
Cantonese. She sounds culturally, linguistically, totally Cantonese... my mind's still fighting
hard, trying to force an accent on her, but so far failing to find even the slightest hint of
foreigness in her accent.

Sorry, I missed the Indian mother and daughter, they are 100% too, just like Sharon, the daugther
slightly more so. The mother has a bit(0.1%) of country accent.










Ian_Lee -

What is so strange about Caucasian speaking Cantonese?

When I was a kid in 1950s, my neighbor was a family of Britons whose kid spoke perfect Cantonese
(including all the 4-letter words). Their parents could all speak Cantonese, though not as fluent
as their son. But in average, their Cantonese were all much better than my other two neighbors --
Shandongese and Shanghaiese.

Nowadays if you go to the market in Hong Kong, most Filipino/Indonesian maids bargain in Cantonese
with those vendors.










Quest -

Ian_Lee, does your Cantonese have accent? I vaguely remember you said it does? Bauer, who you said
had very good Cantonese, does not really... not orally at least. He's okay, but easily detectable
as foreign.










Ian_Lee -

Quest:

Without comparison, Robert Bauer speaks quite good Cantonese. But of course, he is below average
after you compare all the videos.

Actually I prefer the Harilela most. They spoke unambigously, precisely and clearly. Of course,
they spoke with an accent. But accent is not the point since we (you and I) also speak English
with an accent. The most important point is that you can convey your idea accurately. Just like
Kissinger speaks English, everybody can tell that is not his native tongue but he can convey his
idea to us.

For Balcombe, I am not curious on her accentless since she is just like my neighbor kid -- 100%
native.

In terms of fluency, of course it is the Aussie/New Zealand girl who excels.

Though my father is a Chaozhouese, I speak Cantonese with HK accent -- a lot of "lazy sound".
However, I tell my kid not to learn the horrible Zhongshan-accented Cantonese that her classmate
speaks.










Quest -

I think the Australian girl also was born and raised in HK, but her parents kept her home, she was
a homeschooler, that's why she doesn't really know how to read chinese, and she still has a tiny
bit of an accent.










wannabeafreak -

Quest, how do you rate 河國榮 compared to the above people?


Thanks.










Quest -



Quote:

Quest, how do you rate 河國榮 compared to the above people?

I'd like to change my rating for the Indians (the men), they are actually more fluent than Cecilie
and Bauer. So maybe 75 for the Indian men. I think 河國榮's fluency is like theirs but with a
different accent, so maybe 75-80. Do you have a video of him speaking for a lengthy period of
time, I've only seen him in tvb drama.

Best first:
Sharon Balcombe (native)
Indian Daughter (native)
Indian Mother (native but with slight Indian/乡下话 characteristics)
Aus Girl (near native, miss a tone or two occasionally, fluency slightly worse than the above 3,
she uses 系呀，系嘞 too much)
(some distance)
河國榮 (fluent, but accent is foreign)
Indian Richmen (fluent, accent has heavy 乡下话 characteristics)
(some small distance)
Bauer (relatively fluent, accent foreign)
Cecilie (relatively fluent, accent foreign)










wannabeafreak -

Here is 河國榮 Ho Kwok Wing.

I have cut out all the advertisements and music.

Here is the entire interview:

PART 1: http://cantonese.hk/hkw/hkw-01.mp3 (1.97mb)
PART 2: http://cantonese.hk/hkw/hkw-02.mp3 (648kb)
PART 3: http://cantonese.hk/hkw/hkw-03.mp3 (296kb)
PART 4: http://cantonese.hk/hkw/hkw-04.mp3 (874kb)
PART 5: http://cantonese.hk/hkw/hkw-05.mp3 (992kb)



Please let me know how good you reckon he is compared to the above people. In terms of accent,
fluency etc. He is my idol.

Thanks










carlo -

sorry Quest, I'm curious about the 乡下话 accent. Are you saying that these people sound like
native speakers but with a non-'standard', yet non-'foreign', accent? Is it like, I don't know,
the way Blacks in American movies speak compared to Bostonian WASPs? If so, shouldn't their accent
be considered as native as that of the others, albeit of a non-standard variety? (My Cantonese
wouldn't make it to 5 on that scale, so I have to ask.












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Chinese Pinyin - Reasons for Empress Dowager Cixi's current image -

> Chinese Culture > Chinese History
Reasons for Empress Dowager Cixi's current image
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bhchao -

This might seem like a dumb question. But was Empress Dowager Tzu Hsi really the person that her
image in the West supposedly portrays? Or she is viewed in a equally negative light in China?

Her image has been being a decadent ruler who indulged in luxury, palace pleasures, and sex
intrigues. It's a fact that she blocked the efforts of Kang and his reformers in initiating
reform. But was refusing to initiate change her only crime, and was she really the morally
decadent ruler as portrayed in the history records?

It's probably true that she used funds set aside for modernizing China's navy to build her palace
boat.

Something that needs to be kept in mind is Confucian officials historically regulated the content
of dynastic historical archives, and traditionally have been biased against women in power. Wu
Zetian could be another example. She supposedly murdered her own daughter and blamed it on the
empress. But there is no concrete evidence to back that up.

Another possiblity is that Tzu Hsi's image may have been handed down by late 19th century or
turn-of-the-20th Century historians in Western countries to justify the encroachments made in
China at the time. Court officials sympathetic to the reformers may have also exaggerated her
"minuses".



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skylee -

The romanisation "Tsu Hsi" is confusing.










Kellian -

Huh! I'm glad you brought that up. A book I read called "Dragon Lady" by Sterling Seagrave
definitely made that argument and I've been thinking a lot about it. It said that the Empress
wasn't even able to read (she filled in calligraphy written by others)so she wasn't even capable
of personally causing all the trouble she's blamed for. It really painted her as the fall guy of
the Qing Dynasty, which I thought was kindof sad. Western Scholars would say that it's pretty
typical to portray a woman ruler as depraved for a lot of political and social reasons (check out
Catherine the Great or Mary Queen of Scotts)... and everybody benefitted from blaming Cixi really:
the feuding princes, the officials that pilfered, the foreign powers that were basically invading
the country. It always seemed to me that she couldn't have been as bad as she seemed... and that a
lot of others' historical images benefitted from her being the "bad guy."










bhchao -



Quote:

The romanisation "Tsu Hsi" is confusing

Yes, I agree Thanks for pointing it out. Actually I realized my error and edited my post to change
the title of the thread to Cixi, but was busy that I logged off and forgot to change the rest of
the post to Cixi.

But now you quoted it, I have to leave it in the post.



Quote:

A book I read called "Dragon Lady" by Sterling Seagrave definitely made that argument and I've
been thinking a lot about it. It said that the Empress wasn't even able to read (she filled in
calligraphy written by others)so she wasn't even capable of personally causing all the trouble
she's blamed for. It really painted her as the fall guy of the Qing Dynasty, which I thought was
kindof sad. Western Scholars would say that it's pretty typical to portray a woman ruler as
depraved for a lot of political and social reasons (check out Catherine the Great or Mary Queen of
Scotts)... and everybody benefitted from blaming Cixi really: the feuding princes, the officials
that pilfered, the foreign powers that were basically invading the country. It always seemed to me
that she couldn't have been as bad as she seemed... and that a lot of others' historical images
benefitted from her being the "bad guy

Cixi happened to rule at a time when the Qing Dynasty was already long in decline. The Qianlong
reign was actually when the seeds of decline were planted, and continued to accelerate up to
Cixi's reign. If we were to put someone responsible as being the fall guy of the Qing, why not the
emperor who ruled during the time of the Opium War or Qianlong himself, who failed to see the
dangers ahead?

It seems like she just happened to be a woman in power at the wrong time, and acted no differently
from her predecessors.










hkkevin -

you're actually suggesting a so-called macro history view. No one can really change what's going
to happen, and even if someone makes a really big mistake, it's not the sole reason for the
consequences. So, if you think Cixi was only a woman at the bad time, why do we care about the
criticism on Qianlong or Yongzheng?

I'd say that moral judgement is the worst invention in history education. When historians achieved
a consensus on the list of "bad guys/ good guys", then it'll be deadly difficult for us to analyze
the alternative views. Today, it's really a national sport for Chinese historians to reverse the
comments on some well-known historical figures, like Cixi, Qin Emperor, all these do give us more
insights on what they're doing, but it's really a bad move trying to suggest that these guys are
"good guys". It's just another moral judgements.

For Cixi's life, I think it's more important to see how much she contributed to what happened to
China, whether it's good or bad.










bhchao -



Quote:

but it's really a bad move trying to suggest that these guys are "good guys". It's just another
moral judgements.

For Cixi's life, I think it's more important to see how much she contributed to what happened to
China, whether it's good or bad.

Cixi no doubt aggravated China's situation during the late 19th century. There is no dispute that
she was a bad ruler who inhibited progress during that period.

However objectively speaking, she was not totally against change. She was merely against the speed
of change or "radical" change she saw in Kang Youwei and Liang Qichao's reforms.

A ruler being a woman does not excuse her from being held accountable for wrongdoings. My point
was that some negative aspects of a ruler tend to be exaggerated based on traditional bias towards
a "group" which the ruler belongs in.

For example, the official Confucian view towards Wu Zetian says that she was a ruthless woman who
murdered opponents to maintain her grip on power, killed her own daughter and blamed it on the
empress, and was a sex addict who flirted with male courtiers. There is some truth to that (with
the possible exception of killing her daughter), and that was one of the dark aspects of her
reign. This view though overlooks the positives of her reign. During her reign, she promoted
commoners to high government positions based on their proficiency in the civil service exams,
maintained Tang Taizong's assertive foreign policy, and reduced taxes on the peasantry.

I read a book recently that mentions how the wives of foreign missionaries in China during the
late 19th century personally met the Empress Dowager, and the feedback on her was far different
from the negative qualities reported in the news media overseas. Of course this doesn't mean she
was a "good" ruler, but it does shed some light on how certain aspects of a person can be
exaggerated to suit a certain bias.

Anyways I do think that the internal strife and backwardness in China during the early ROC years
has its roots in Cixi's inaction to implement much needed reforms.










hkkevin -



Quote:

However objectively speaking, she was not totally against change. She was merely against the speed
of change or "radical" change she saw in Kang Youwei and Liang Qichao's reforms.

I always wonder if i were her, what i would do to save the muddled dragon at that time. At that
time, China was really worst at every possible ways. Alongsides all colony powers, there was a
Taiping Rebellion and a growing revolution force. And inside bureaucracy, the conservative
officals was a dead block to radical reforms but they were the only hardcore supporters of the
sick dynasty. And the rise of Han Chinese army would damage must be worrying to Manchuese too.

Then how would you deal with it? To introduce a shock therapy?










bhchao -



Quote:

I always wonder if i were her, what i would do to save the muddled dragon at that time. At that
time, China was really worst at every possible ways.

It was already too late to save the dragon by the time of Cixi's reign. These changes should have
begun during the twilight years of Qianlong's reign. Unfortunately Qianlong had a Sino-centric
attitude in his perceptions of the outside world. He regarded Western science and technology as
inferior inventions created by the "barbarians". This closed-door approach to foreign policy and
global commerce contrasted sharply with Kangxi's approach.

A lesson to be learned from this late-Qing period is that pride can be an inhibition to progress.
Wasn't pride the most deadly of the seven deadly sins according to the Catholic Church? It's an
issue today that's afflicting the current administration in Taiwan with regards to its approach in
cross-Strait communications.

A pragmatic approach during late-Qing probably would be to merge Western science, medicine,
technology, and structural forms of government with traditional Chinese values such as Confucian
ethics.

Some late 20th century historians call Kang Youwei an opportunist whose "radical" reforms were too
sudden of a change for China, a society that was deeply entrenched in neo-Confucianism on the
political level. I think his intentions were good, but it came too late in history to save the
muddled dragon. Also a more realistic approach would be to implement incremental changes gradually
despite the desperate situation, and play the foreign powers off against each other to buy
yourself time.

Both Cixi and Kang Youwei were right, and both were wrong. If I was Cixi, I would have completely
stepped down much earlier on in favor of a "middle of the road", reformist government.

Considering this history (despite my ideological opponent in the CCP), I'm glad that the CCP is
adopting a pragmatic line in making China much stronger than it was during the late 19th century
by not repeating the mistakes of its Qing predecessors.










studentyoung -



Quote:

This might seem like a dumb question. But was Empress Dowager Tzu Hsi really the person that her
image in the West supposedly portrays? Or she is viewed in a equally negative light in China?

Hmm, have you heard of this book named 《宫女谈往录》, written by an unknown but
conscientious intellectual called 金易according to his records of chatting with a Maid of Honor,
who was one of Empress Dowager Tzu His’s close maids?
http://book.sina.com.cn/nzt/his/gongnvtanwang/
《宫女谈往录》(Chinese version)

Thanks!










trevelyan -

Seagrave's book is very well written, although it's interesting because it is more a history of
her time than of the Empress Dowager herself. For what documents are left through which we could
actually know her?

I think the best point Seagrave makes is that Robert Hart, who was probably the only westerner who
would really know, considered her quite nice personally. And she apparently had tea with the wives
of some foreign diplomats at some point, some of whom wrote about it.

I think the really amazing thing about Cixi is how much damage Edmund Backhouse managed to do to
her reputation.












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Study Chinese - F-visa kidnap -

> Studying, Working and Living in China > Living in China
F-visa kidnap
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adrianlondon -

I will be studying at BNU this semester; from September until January.

I applied for a 6-month multi-entry visa on the visa form but the embassy (in London) said that
they only give single entry visas if the study period is 6 months or less. I guess I could have
pushed for an X-visa but I didn't want the hassle of getting a medical nor registering with the
local police.

So now I can't leave China for a quick break back to the UK. Not such a big deal but my original
plan was to take a break after 3 months mainly to take backsome of the stuff I would have bought
in China, and to pick up jumpers and coats etc. from the UK. Oh well. I've been kidnapped and have
to stay in China for 6 months! Guess it'll stop me skiving my classes.



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roddy -

You should be able to get a re-entry stamp from the PSB - basically it allows you one out-and-in
trip without invalidating your current visa. Costs around 300RMB, last I heard (which was ages
ago, so check with the relevant authorities.) These are perhaps less commonly used now that
residence permits double up as multi-entry visas, and there might have been changes I don't know
about.










adrianlondon -

Thanks - I did remember reading something about that on here. The reason I went for the F and not
the X visa was so I didn't have to deal with the PSB in the first place

And it's another 300RMB. Not a large amount, I know, but even so. More red tape and money. It
helps the world go around. Deep in an old newsletter on the BNu website it says



Quote:

If you would like to go outside of mainland China within your study time (including Hong Kong,
Macao and Taiwan region), do remember to apply for the Re-entry visa before you leave. Please come
to the International Student Office 10 days ahead to fill out the application form.

Being European and of the "yeah, right, that's what it says but let's just do it like this
instead" mentality, I assumed I could ask politely for a multi-entry visa at the embassy and get
one. Oh no.












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HSK - Opinions on Laowai - Page 5 -

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Opinions on Laowai
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jeffofarabia -

living in japan i was always called a gaijin. after three years on the jet program i returned to
the states. when i ran into some japanese people at an amusement park i pointed at them and said
"gaijin." i know it was mean, but i felt it was fair play. they just seemed confused about the
whole affair.



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jeffofarabia -

a friend of mine had the laowei coming and going tee shirt. he wore it all of the time.
a saw a better shirt a couple of years ago in egypt. it read: "my brother went on jihad and all he
got me was this stupid tee shirt." talk about a brave tee shirt.










necroflux -

I think that for most people in Asia 老外 is not equivalent to "chink" or "nigger". That is, in
Asian society, I don't believe the word has anywhere near that degree of negativity. I say this
because I have a number of lifelong friends who are native to Taiwan, all of whom were very strong
in their insistence that the word is not negative in nature, but rather a term of endearment.

Certainly that doesn't mean it can't be used in a negative way. Any word can be used to emphasize
a particular difference, and depending on the tone and exactly what is being said, along with the
person's attitude as a whole, its meaning could vary from adulation to utter hatred.

The cultural moreys of Asian society are fundamentally different from those of the West, so I
think we just have to take a step back, completely reset our expectations, and start with a fresh
mind. Judge people based on their intent and their intent alone, and save semantics for the
natives.

As an aside, does anyone else think it's strange that half of the shows in Taiwan introduce women
with their height, weight, and bra size? And then talk about it for the entire show? Wow, you're a
B cup?? 看不出來啊! I thought A for sure!

It's a totally different set of rules out here.










dalaowai -

In my experience the term 老 is often used as a form of endearment, such as 老婆，老公，etc.

I've been here four years and 90% of the time I heard 老外 directed towards me, it was usually
it attached to some negative or childish comments. It was also used when the speaker thought I
didn't understand.

I met an elderly Singaporean woman last week and she had been living in Shanghai for 6 months. She
asked me how I felt being called a laowai, which surprised me. I asked why and she said that in
Singapore it was considered quite rude to refer to foreigners as laowai.

But yeah, the term 老 is definitely most often used in polite ways, but not when the 外 is added.

With that being said, I have Chinese-North-American friends who don't find the term Chink as being
racist. So it all depends on whether a person will be bothered by a label or not.










mandarinstudent -

At first it was funny.
Then for a while it was infuriating.
Now I don't hear it.

First of all, the way I see it, if you are in China working and making money, you don't have the
right to bitch. In the case of students, bitching is ok because you are only adding to the Chinese
economy, not benefiting from it. Whether you are a business expat or an english teacher in China,
you are making buttloads more than your Chinese counterparts just for your white (or other
non-asian) skin. That same skin is going to cause gawking and racist remarks. In the case of the
foreign teachers, that is the price you pay for being paid a kings ransom (by Chinese standards)
just for being able to speak English. Foreigners make too much money (again, compared to regular
Chinese people, not what it would be worth in your home country) to complain about anything. If a
little "laowai!" is the price to pay to live 5, 10, 50 times better than the natives, I say get
over it. I'm going to say the same thing as I said to people bitching about the US while making
money there...If you don't like it, go home!

Secondly, people from the countryside make up around 80% of the Chinese population. These people
are poor and uneducated. If you are an educated black man and walk through a trailer park, are you
going to be offended when some redneck swilling Pabst Blue Ribbon calls you the "N" word? If you
are an educated white person walking through the ghetto, are you going to be mad if some gangsta
calls you a "honky"? Of course not. You would chalk it up to their lack of education and move on.
Why would it be any different in China? Everyone knows that it isn't the well educated people that
are shouting, "laowai!" Apply the same reasoning that you would in your home country.










magores -

I don't hear laowai or waiguoren very often in my daily life in Beijing.

Sometimes, I'll hear it when I go shopping in one of the 7 story wholesale "malls" that Beijing
has. I have big feet (by Chinese standards), so I have to go to wholesale markets to find my size.
And, I'm cheap, so I buy electronics in Zhongguancun, rather than normal stores.

I'll walk into an area, and someone, usually an "ayi", will say "Laowai lai le" or "Waiguoren lai
le". I just look at them, smile, and say, "Dui. Wo dao le." It gets a giggle every time.

Never had any problems at all.

Much more pleaseant way to go about my business than worrying about what the person might have
been trying to insinuate.

At least, thats how I figure it.

Magores










woliveri -

My Bagua Shifu calls me LaoWai and I'm one of his most devoted students. I don't feel anything
negative about it.










gougou -



Quote:

'll walk into an area, and someone, usually an "ayi", will say "Laowai lai le" or "Waiguoren lai
le".

When I went to my local fruit vendor the other day, they were having a merry family get-together
behind their little kart, and somebody from the back exclaimed: 欧元来了!










mrtoga -

mandarinstudent talks some sense here. In the boonies we are something very different, remarkable
in fact - so people make remarks about the fact. And the reason you do not hear the word in
Beijing is simply because there are so many of us. It is no longer worth the exclamation!


Laowai is similar to foreigner in literal meaning, but the perceived divide between speaker and
object is much larger with laowai than with foreigner. Laowai is perceived to be fundamentally
different in some hazy sense, whereas foreigner simply refers to someone who speaks in a different
language or with a foreign accent, however there is no perceived fundamental difference










back -

Hi, I am a Chinese.I like this forum very much. and I learn a lot of English here.

Actually, I often say "laowai". but I dont think it is rude. I think it is also very interesting
and ... friendly.

Dont be too sensitive. And most importantly, please remember: most of Chinese are very friendly to
foreiners.

Regards.












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Chinese Tutor - New Practical Chinese Reader Vocabulary -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
New Practical Chinese Reader Vocabulary
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nongmin -

Does anyone know where I can obtain/purchase a text file or excel file with the words from the New
Practical Chinese Reader series (1-5)? I would like to put them into a flash card training program.



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mandarinboy -

You can find them here: http://ktmatu.com/chinese/practical-chinese-reader/










HashiriKata -

"New Practical Chinese Reader" (nongmin's request) and "Practical Chinese Reader" (mandarinboy's
link) are different series but I wonder if they use the same texts (and therefore the same
vocabulary).

Anyone has seen both the old and the new series?

Edit (in case anyone is interested in the reply to the question):
A brief investigation revealed that the 2 series are based on different texts. So it seems that
apart from sharing the same name, they're different series.










gato -

You can try here for "New Practical Chinese Reader."
http://www.flashcardexchange.com/sea...&search=Search












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HSK Exam - Tour De France -

> Chinese Culture > Films and Television
Tour De France
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Ninja -

Anyone know if any of the local Chinese channels are showing the Tour?



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roddy -

Turn your TV on! CCTV5 right now

Roddy










Ninja -

Is it repeated later in the day do you know? I'm at work right now










roddy -

CCTV5 Schedules are here. That site seems to work best in IE.












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Chinese Tutor - Could someone give me the Chinese translation...... -

> Learning Chinese > Reading and Writing
Could someone give me the Chinese translation......
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alidoll -

I have arthritis and I benefit from massage but am worried that if I got one in Beijing (or
wherever I may be in China) that they will do it too hard.

Could someone please translate into Chinese something along the lines of this .....


"I have rheumatoid arthritis in my hands, wrists, knees, feet and toes, so please be a little more
gentle than normal. Thank you very much"


And thank you for whoever can help me out



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semantic nuance -

Hi,

我的手, 腕關節,膝蓋, 腳和腳趾頭都有類風濕性關節炎, 所以請你輕一點,
非常感激.

be a little more gentle than normal---apart from the above, you can say "比平常小力一點"

Hope it helps!










alidoll -

you can say "比平常小力一點"


What does this mean as an alternative to the first one ?

Thank you for translating for me, but if anyone has the Chinese word for arthritis I would be very
grateful.












liuzhou -

Arthritis is 關節炎 (guan1 jie2 yan2)

Rheumatoid arthritis is 風濕性關節炎 (feng1 shi1 xing4 guan1 jie2 yan2)










alidoll -

Thank you liuzhou










semantic nuance -

It means the same as the first one. I just offered another way of expressing it.










hbuchtel -

Alidol, are you getting massage specifically to treat your arthritis?

Henry










alidoll -

#7 Not for specifically arthritis, but it does tend to make me feel a whole lot better












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Chinese Mandarin - Quick check on Google access just now -

> Learning Chinese > Chinese Computing and Technology
Quick check on Google access just now
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Page 1 of 6 1 23 > »






roddy -

There should be some kind of support group for internet users in China. Can you get Google? Is
this site blocked? When will Hotmail start working? Is someone reading my emails?

Anyway, haven't been able to get any Google services this morning, bar Google.cn - is anyone else
seeing this? Or is it just me? Am I paranoid? Are they watching me . . .



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Jonny Wang -

I can get Google right now, but I have had trouble with it on and off for the past couple of days.
Don't know what's up with it.










gato -

google.com has been unreachable this morning from Beijing, unless with a proxy.
google.com.cn is still reachable.










rose~ -

Shanghai: google.co.uk has been sporadic the whole week, on and off, more on than off, works after
several refreshes.

For me, google.cn is inaccessible and redirects to google.com [which is sporadic], though others
say google.cn working and other googles inaccessible. Perhaps depends on isp?

I might sound cynical, but surely it's a matter of time before other country googles are blocked?
Otherwise what would have been the point in enforcing filtering on google.cn.?

If google.co.uk is blocked it will be very 麻煩 as UKers need it for UK-specific searches.
Good-bye, Google.co.uk? We have shared so much together...

Hotmail and MSN started working again this week in Shanghai.

I wouldn't write anything in an email which you could be potentially compromising, after I met an
Aussie woman whose friend was teaching English who told me how he got into some trouble, and the
Police had a print-out of this guy's hotmail.True.










roddy -

Moved posts on the bbc and gmail to other topics - it's my thread and I'm keeping it clean

Roddy
PS Mainly because there's nothing else I can do when Google isn't working.










rose~ -

Sorry, Roddy...

It does also cause real problems for me as when I am doing a translation I Google the hardest
terms with some English thrown in and Google usually gives me a translation.










johnd -

I had problems opening google.com yesterday and today in Shenzhen. I'd just installed
GustomizeGoogle extension for Firefox and had been wondering if that was the problem. Obviously
not! I've never had problems with google.com before. I hope we're not being forced onto google.cn!










roddy -

I don't think so, it just came back for me for several minutes - of course I didn't even think
'wow, Google's back' - I just took it for granted until it disappeared again. My guess would be
network issues somewhere along the line rather than a deliberate block of any kind.

Translating without Google's a major hassle, especially if you deal with a lot of . . . well . . .
words . . .










billybot -

http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-w...om/webhp?hl=en
Google [Anonymoused]

that is google through anonymouse, which seems to be working. it is a little slower and there are
ads, but it works.










venture160 -

yea i need google for work as well, god I am starting to get used to yahoo.. what a piece of crap
compared to google.












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Pnyin - Comics 聾貓 - Page 3 -

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Comics 聾貓
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文言訓開班 -

Thanks a lot guys. This really clears up the strips for me Sorry for the nuisance!



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skylee -

The two panda characters are An An and Jia Jia, which are based on the two old pandas in HK. If
you can't read any of the chinese characters (especially those of the 2nd page), just ask.

And 實Q = security guards

Enjoy.


















wai ming -

For those of you who enjoy the comics Skylee posted, you might enjoy this:

梁漢文+楊千嬅 -《滾》改篇歌












skylee -

Thanks wai ming. I like it a lot.

Actually I have the book but I didn't know the song.












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Chinese Character - vinyl records shop in beijing??? -

> Chinese Culture > Music
vinyl records shop in beijing???
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adlianb -

anybody know if there's any music stores in beijing that stocked vinyl records??? any genre will
do....



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Guide to Chinese
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Forum: Reading and Writing 10th May 2005, 09:05 AM

Replies: 31

Total Number of Chinese characters

Views: 7,315

Posted By zhwj


I'm fairly certain this is a mistranslation - the...

I'm fairly certain this is a mistranslation - the number of characters in a common one-volume
dictionary is around 8000-13,000 (the 《应用汉语词典》 I have in front of me lists 10,000
in the preface, and it...



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: 82riceballs

Forum: Reading and Writing 27th December 2007, 10:36 PM

Replies: 9

請勿使用在他站相同的帳號和密碼

Views: 423

Posted By 82riceballs


Re: 請勿使用在他站相同的帳號和密碼

THANKS!!!



Forum: Reading and Writing 26th December 2007, 03:01 AM

Replies: 9

請勿使用在他站相同的帳號和密碼

Views: 423

Posted By 82riceballs


Re: 請勿使用在他站相同的帳號和密碼

@chenpv- thanks so much! :mrgreen:
@muyongshi- that's okay, pal!



Forum: Reading and Writing 25th December 2007, 11:29 PM

Replies: 9

請勿使用在他站相同的帳號和密碼

Views: 423

Posted By 82riceballs


Re: 請勿使用在他站相同的帳號和密碼

THanx!



Forum: Reading and Writing 25th December 2007, 11:22 PM

Replies: 9

請勿使用在他站相同的帳號和密碼

Views: 423

Posted By 82riceballs


請勿使用在他站相同的帳號和密碼

I read this sentence while trying to make an account on a website:


I think the gist of this means: Please do not use the same account ID and password as
"在他站"??? What does this mean?

Thanks!



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: billiardsmike

Forum: Reading and Writing 16th June 2007, 07:26 AM

Replies: 62

How many characters is enough?

Views: 5,411

Posted By billiardsmike


Re: How many characters is enough?

I can't stress the compounds enough - they are words, afterall ! It's not unusual for me to be
able to read entire sentences and still have virtually no idea as to the meaning because I still
don't...



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Search took 0.04 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: HashiriKata

Forum: Reading and Writing 13th December 2006, 04:09 PM

Replies: 71

DeFrancis article on Chinese writing reform

Views: 5,389

Posted By HashiriKata


Re: DeFrancis article on Chinese writing reform

self-taught-mba, if you were such a professor and not white, you'd know that this happens. Now, if
you're white, whatever nonsense you spit out, there's a chance that some people will find you...



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: muppetwonder

Forum: Reading and Writing 5th December 2007, 03:47 AM

Replies: 77

I Hate Hanzi

Views: 8,444

Posted By muppetwonder


Re: I Hate Hanzi

I'm coming into this thread a little late, but I wanted to throw in my $0.02, since I'm not sure
that anyone has brought this up in previous posts.

By way of background, I grew up in Canada, and...



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Search took 0.03 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: techie

Forum: Reading and Writing 4th February 2004, 07:32 AM

Replies: 79

Simplified vs. Traditional

Views: 6,760

Posted By techie


Simplified versus Traditional

I tend to agree with CaveBear regarding the use of Simplified versus Traditional Characters. But
again, I think as someone has already pointed in here, it all depends how you want to use it.

In my...



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Search took 0.03 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: roddy

Forum: Reading and Writing 4th August 2005, 01:41 AM

Replies: 131

Chinese in purely phonetic script

Views: 10,715

Posted By roddy


Y'know, if a phonetic system is such a bad idea,...

Y'know, if a phonetic system is such a bad idea, how do all the Chinese people understand each
other when speaking :conf

你好，老张 。 。 。
你说的是“拟定”的‘ni'，还是”旖旎”的'ni'?
哎，你说的是 。 。 。

Roddy



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 3 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: nnt

Forum: Reading and Writing 17th June 2004, 08:26 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


The character I mentioned is in the Sursong.ttf...

The character I mentioned is in the Sursong.ttf font included in Office XP CHS and in "Office
proofing tools" and standardized by the Unicode organization. Sure, the purpose of this font is
to...



Forum: Reading and Writing 17th June 2004, 04:00 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


I didn't. I just gave [女巽] because it does not...

I didn't. I just gave [女巽] because it does not seem to have many strokes or to be too
complicated, and its splitting into parts is simple (everything is relative...) and is a character
I am actually...



Forum: Reading and Writing 16th June 2004, 11:59 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


Like the Messiah? Romanized Vietnamese has...

Like the Messiah?

Romanized Vietnamese has already been invented by Jesuits to propagate Holy Messages to Vietnam,
so it may be God's will to save our soul (and much more) from those devilish ...



Forum: Reading and Writing 16th June 2004, 10:56 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


Vinh as in vinh viên (everlasting,...

Vinh as in vinh viên (everlasting, eternal)
trng = dai (long) as in "Van Ly Trng Thanh" (Great Wall)
Even if a Vietnamese doesn't know Chinese characters, he should understand this...



Forum: Reading and Writing 28th May 2004, 02:04 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


He he; I think Pazu should have used Yue4 Ju1 越剧...

He he; I think Pazu should have used Yue4 Ju1 越剧 as a better example :wink:

He may have been influenced by Vietnamese usage; for the Vietnamese also use Viêt ng 越语
as a synonym for tiêng Viêt...



Forum: Reading and Writing 27th May 2004, 04:17 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


In Han Viêt: 反貪污 phan tham ^o 不合法活動 b^at hp...

In Han Viêt:

反貪污 phan tham ^o
不合法活動 b^at hp phap hoat d^ong
防預貪污 phong d tham ^o
公共關係 c^ong c^ong quan hê

These Han Viêt transcriptions, though a little too much formal or solemn for a...



Forum: Reading and Writing 19th May 2004, 04:05 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


You're right, but I was adding something to Ian...

You're right, but I was adding something to Ian Lee's posts above...

This discussion concerns ideographic characters as a writing system, not just for Chinese standard
Hanzi and mandarin, but also...



Forum: Reading and Writing 19th May 2004, 03:16 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


I think that dmoser is objectively right saying...

I think that dmoser is objectively right saying that "Chinese characters are harder...even for
Chinese", but just practically and psychologically wrong because he touches an emotional chord.

The...



Forum: Reading and Writing 16th May 2004, 02:48 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


Pazu: What I've written is not an opinion, just a...

Pazu:
What I've written is not an opinion, just a Devil's advocate observation...



Forum: Reading and Writing 16th May 2004, 12:51 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


I think dmoser has forgotten the main reason for...

I think dmoser has forgotten the main reason for defending Chinese characters:

because they are harder, even for Chinese!!!

In the good old past, when the scholars sect ruled, characters were a...



Forum: Reading and Writing 15th May 2004, 09:42 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


t^oi = 碎 sui4 (Han Viêt toai )"used...

t^oi = 碎 sui4 (Han Viêt toai )"used as" t^oi . It's a Chinese character used phonetically
to transcribe a Vietnamese sound (like kun reading in Japanese)

The same for 過 / 过, guo4 (Han Viêt qua )...



Forum: Reading and Writing 15th May 2004, 04:36 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


Just read Pazu's post above about the six ways to...

Just read Pazu's post above about the six ways to invent characters, and you'll see how to
memorize a little less ...

Btw, Pazu:

The N^om characters in your post (after the link to your photos)...



Forum: Reading and Writing 15th May 2004, 03:20 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


I don't think these examples are relevant for our...

I don't think these examples are relevant for our comparision purpose.
You never memorize a multiplication table of 200x200. A human being would rather memorize 8
"elementary" multiplication...



Forum: Reading and Writing 10th May 2004, 02:16 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


What about typo mistakes using characters? Some...

What about typo mistakes using characters?

Some are very funny. This one I'm copying/pasting from an e-book edition of the "Three Kingdoms" :



meaning : the 7 warring states of the week-end...



Forum: Reading and Writing 8th May 2004, 03:33 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


Pazu: In the past, neither Han t (Hanzi) nor...

Pazu:

In the past, neither Han t (Hanzi) nor Ch N^om were "popular" in Vietnam for the simple
reason only a few (the scholars) could read/write Chinese characters.
Han t was the official...



Forum: Reading and Writing 7th May 2004, 05:59 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


Pazu: This is clearly untrue. Ch N^om, although...

Pazu:
This is clearly untrue.
Ch N^om, although non-standard, has been used under every Vietnamese dynasty (and the kings
were the first one to use them, even the most conservative ones) since it...



Forum: Reading and Writing 7th May 2004, 05:07 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


Ala: I find this discussion quite interesting,...

Ala:
I find this discussion quite interesting, because it was exactly the case with Vietnamese.
Vietnamese ch N^om [字字] 喃 was character-based. The word ch is Vietnamese, while
t 字 is Han...



Forum: Reading and Writing 6th May 2004, 11:55 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


Pazu: I'm surprised. This is the first time I've...

Pazu:
I'm surprised. This is the first time I've ever heard this. :shock:
I think it's subjective or a matter of training: if you spell at each word, or if you don't read
many books, yes, but still...



Forum: Reading and Writing 6th May 2004, 02:01 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


Vietnamese has no inflection at all, whether in...

Vietnamese has no inflection at all, whether in ch n^om or in latinized transcription, and
will not develop it. Reversely, Japanese has inflection, although Kanji is heavily used (and
Romaji very...



Forum: Reading and Writing 6th May 2004, 04:40 AM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


I would say: it's just as difficult (or as easy)...

I would say: it's just as difficult (or as easy) to explain what kind of flower 玫瑰花 is, or
"rose". If I don't have a picture to point at and say "this is a ..." (玫瑰花 or "rose"), it
would be just as...



Forum: Reading and Writing 5th May 2004, 01:40 PM

Replies: 473

Characters are objectively harder, even for Chinese

Views: 45,323

Posted By nnt


I think this phenomenon occurs in any language....

I think this phenomenon occurs in any language. Even a renowned writer writing in his native
language has a few words he would always involuntarily spell or write wrong (in case of a
Chinese...



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: Piers Carlson

Forum: Reading and Writing 3rd March 2006, 10:17 AM

Replies: 12

Can someone please check my translations?

Views: 1,738

Posted By Piers Carlson


我喜欢吃中国饭，但是我做不了。 (i know it's the same, but it's...

我喜欢吃中国饭，但是我做不了。 (i know it's the same, but it's what i'd hear 99% of
the time here) also 做不了 is really not very appropriate here.

我想买一本好的中文词典，但是在这书店里我找不到。 (i don't know how
necessary the 在 is...



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Search took 0.01 seconds; generated 4 minute(s) ago. Search: Posts Made By: logos

Forum: Reading and Writing 25th August 2005, 02:45 AM

Replies: 5

The best TECHNIQUE for learning characters ?

Views: 1,263

Posted By logos


I believe I read in a different thread about the...

I believe I read in a different thread about the importance of learning the radicals (bushou
部首), as a way to foster recognition of Chinese characters. This seemed like a reasonable goal
to me and I...



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